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Heimdallr

Couple of suggestions

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Hi all,

 

I know it is too early so I don't expect anything, just dropping few suggestions that I carry from past-dead Naruto MMO projects I was working with, perhaps you  would use some of those, or those ideas would inspire you in some way;

 

1. It would be cool to have jutsu system that requires combinations of numeric keyboard as instead of WOW-alike skills, there would be seals to Jutsus you've unlocked.

So for example: Character X knows how to perform Katon: Zukokku.  That jutsu, (despite its power) requires  3 seals Rat>Dog>Tiger,  so for example 4>3>5.  This  makes game harder and skill demanding as you need to run, dodge, and do the seals properly.

This also opens opportunities for some Feats/Perks later that for example if seal combination is too long, you could get perk that shortens or makes automatic usage of selas if jutsu is for example 3-4 seals long only.

 

2. Jutsus - It would be awesome to get only few basics when you choose a Mastery and then, to learn more you would have to train/find them and spend time to up your skills in certain skill like Water release. This could bring skill system to use. An Example:

Character at start would have a element randomed, that the character is proficient with. Your character would have faster gains with it but you wouldn't know what element you got till obtaining Chūnin. Rest of skills  should have some limitations, for example if you go more into NIN than TAI, all TAI related should gain slower, and gains should be slow in general to be rewarded more with obtaining certain levels or jutsus, and also more remarkable. This could lead to a big build possibility, Imagine finding it meta for someone to be NIN, but then you meet someone and you are having issues,  because he mastered Bukijutsu (weapon art) along with Genjutsu, so he spend so much time and actually he went like 24 Gen and 30 Buk as he does not need more genjutsu, he unlocked wanted ability and rest for him is to go for Buk as he uses Gen just to debuff someone, this could create a vast build possibility and everyone could be unique in how they mix stuff.

 

3. Limitations - Those are always great, the real demanding stuff like extremely hard to perform Taijutsus or Bukijutsus that would consume the body, or Sharingan/Byakugan usage should be mostly used once in a fight till some point, so when you  obtain such a technique/feature, you could get a separate skill bar for it to train or a general ones like "Uchiha bloodline skill or Stamina and muscle control"

In fights you would have to make tough decisions like: "ok...I'm nearly out of chakra, after using Sharingan I will have one, more two attacks to finish it, or I will run out and I will die...or should I try to use two, three more jutsus and if he won't dodge I can win..." that type of decisions make the game unique and skill demanding.

When your character would be better at that of course you could be called the Sharingan, or the Sage or get any other title by players, based on what you've mastered to a level you can use it easily!

4. Talents and character development - It would be cool to either also get some random paths apart from nature of chakra, in Bloodlines, or to have to choose some and lock others from obtaining. For example of Sharingan as it is the easiest(No, Not gonna go for Sharingan myself) so example choices:

Some Basic boost of sharingan reactions and reflexes - this would provide better reflexes, so dodge and  better defence  and boost to TAI, this would then open path to for example sharpened sharingan sight that would allow of Uchiha ranged training, so you could do a combo with kunais that Itachi did(throwing few that are fakes and opponent sees them so he dodges, then reactivation of skill to throw others to instantly hit the thrown ones and redirect them to hit opponent)

Go for Nin or Gen and have randomed or to choose what certain skills there so getting Amaterasu, makes sharingan get destroyed(here can be a big list of downsides to input and watch out for) but it locks Susanoo for example, or something.

 

That's all I remember at the moment, should drop more if I will get to those

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Thank you for your thorough suggestions! We will take a look at them.

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Tailed Beasts and Jinchuriki - Beasts should be world bosses. It would require raid of 40 players and at least party of 5 sealing jutsus trained in seals related to well...capture and seal a beast (because we could have various seal type talents and jutsus like seal evil, elemental and so on. Seals are a vast thing in Asian culture)

Of course more sealers the better but higher chance and so on but...what's the guarantee of surviving with less healers or defense themed players?

Then someone needs to invest in some perk that will make him a vessel, each point increases the chance of surviving(and perhaps each player has hidden +20 and -20% of being a good vessel?) and he becomes the Jinchuriki.

Junchuriki would have separate talent tree and skill bar to obtain these talents,  he would have access to few powerful abilities and of course he would be unkillable by a single player or even a bigger group of players(unless highly skilled and geared) and now the best part - limitations.

If a Jinchuriki would not log in at least once for an hour in 7 days, his character would die and beast would spawn randomly somewhere, so that people could not keep it from everyone or log out and block the possibility of having it. (once per 3 days beast would offer a ressurection to a player, or perhaps a chance to avoid lethal damage so if your hp would drop to 0, instantly refill it to 20% - a feat of control idea)

 

7 swords - Basically as Above(perhaps little sword rework? some of them were literally made so bad...without any deeper idea just to fill the gap, but that's a different conversation) 7 Sword masters that would have awesome OP swords they could utilize, however apart from swords and their abilities nothing else, so it would be easier to obtain that sword(but in order to wield it a higher rank would be required) - Same 7 days rule.

 

Other powerful artifacts - We could create some based on Asian themes, apart from that there were Sage's regalia and other like that, same rule should apply, 7 days and they would be also dropped on death as all above

 

Powerful Jutsus - There should be some system with learning powerful jutsus, that would make people not to have them all, some limitation but I got no idea how that would work in balance...you know, just to make all unique and not able to possess all the jutsus. But this type of jutsus could be passed to other players after some training, or some sort of co-op activity.

 

Sage art - Hidden as hell and with some random restrictions perhaps? not sure if it is possible to achieve in wow but I guess the "lands" of the animal sages should be instanced and never possible to enter by anyone unless:

-You got right pact, which is the first step to enter

-You have rank high enough to learn the Sage way(perhaps each would provide different bonuses and you can't have specific other deep dive in some talent way jutsus, like 8 Gates and so on, so this would require to be a deep path of character development)

-Someone who obtained it could teleport there with a scroll whenever he wants to after a short ritual

-Long, painful to skill path that provides talents and abilities

-Not sure if possible but there should be entrances that are hidden as much as possible and spread across the world, but they have to change their entrances daily so that someone can't metagame and say - selling location for 5k

 

 

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Some idea regarding Sage art:
While yes, I can imagine it being good; I'd say make there some sort of passive, hidden "proficency" counter on character creation that either puts that at advantage... or not. I mean, Jiraiya had little to no affinity for it and was unable to master it.


,, Learn this: When a Hunter takes up the cloak of a dead comrade, this is a vow. " 

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• Technician • Modder • Genius • Local Lunatic • Dante's 8th Circle •

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That's what I'm saying, more downsides and difficulities your character has, the better because it makes it more unique, perhaps this character won't be able to master genjutsu sharingan you always wanted, but it granted you better reflexes than others would have, so you can utilize that this way, or simply just have lots of downsides and you need to add other skills to compensate

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TBH, Sage art is all about being OP just like Gates and KIG stuff like Sharingan etc. That's why they need to be obtainable, but hard and limited. So people would have RNG on their character deciding whether they are better and if not what cons do they have, perfect sage that can pop it right on whenever he wants would be a 10% of sages on the server, and that literally means that you need a bigger group to kill him in co-op, unless he is bad at playing the game, but that's normal. You can't and you should not think about soloing everything - yes, it should be possible to solo out things but there should be always things that are not available to your character, but available to someone with different build(that's probably why you play 3 man parties right?)

 

As to Randoming clan jutsus and skills...it's  for balance. Because you can't actually decide what you will inherit from your parents right? it's random. You can just practice that, also if I'm not mistaken KIG translates to bloodline limit, which fits this idea even more.

You can random a chakra nature and be more proficient with that, not practice that one and practice other that is slower but perhaps in the future you will decide to upgrade your main - uniquesness in itself and also build fun, but you can choose that stable develpoment. This would attract people more into non-clan stuff. Otherwise 90% of server would go for KIG, literally. By doing some stuff RNG opening and locking some paths for you, or doing some cons for each pros you invest into in KIG would be awesome and make you unique, but also make people consider not going KIG at all, but rather expand NIN/GEN/TAI or other weird stuff - just to add, I don't think Powerful techniques should be available to KIG, you should not mix up KIG with Sage/8 Gates and so on.

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Jutsu working on a Combo-like seal system sounds pretty cool, I ain't gonna lie.
Probably a whole mess in the game, though.

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I don't like the Jutsu working as a combo system just because I don't want to have to remember the hand sign combinations for half a dozen different abilities. If this plays out anything at all like traditional wow (mechanically) then players will have a lot of abilities and that's a lot to memorize unless the devs are game design gurus who somehow come up with a way to make it super intuitive. I feel like skill shots do enough to reward skill, as will knowing your abilites, those of your opponents and how different abilities interact. This doesn't need the complexity of a fighting game on top of all that.

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Thing about wow traditional spell system if that it relies on numbers and stats, while the skillshot system relies on player positioning and timing. I'd rather have a system that you need to actually practice to get good at rather than one that requires just a grind and stat padding to eventually end up simply stomping over people that have significantly lower stats.

 

Stats mean the people who get to grind the most and first get to be on top of the food chain, stopping anyone that follows from grinding to catch up. Skill based system removes that issue. 

Edited by Paul

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I agree which is why I love the skillshot system that he devs are implementing. It awards things like timing, positioning and strategy in ways the greatly increase the skill ceiling without increasing the over all complexity of the system. Hopefully this will make the combat feel a bit like early seasons of Naruto where the emphasis was on smart use of jutsu and out maneuvering your opponent. I just don't like the idea of having the remember the hand signs for every single jutsu.

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Hand seals system sounds nice in theory, but considering u need one hand on mouse for camera and one hand on wasd for movement, it would turn out horrible in practice when you's have to take one hand off cam or movement to type out your seals.

 


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Yes and no.

 

Yes, because you need to spend time to do the seals, move your hand from camera or movement and it makes  people using TAI/GEN to have "easier" combat.

No, because it would reduce mindless spam, because imagine(and that will happen for sure) people doing a group and just attacking, they literally push one button and then another and another to spam out their AOE, but while they need to form seals, they need time for that. On the other hand as a NIN you are a ranged  most of the time and you need to move.

For me it's simple, I use my example 557683 and use jutsu, then immediately move away, so I'm changing my direction I start to run and form another seals depending on situation - for defensive jutsu or not - Note here that there should be jutsu release trigger( For example 5678 makes simple fireball jutsu and character holds it, to unleash formed chakra I would have to do left click or something)

 

It's actually balancind more than it sounds also making pvp more demanding. We had this system on other naruto MMO that is no longer out. Esentially, it was on unreal engine if I'm correct and we did crazy combat things like forming chidori was on numeric keyboard: 825 and immediately after that, a  sequence: S+S+A+Space + click. This combination formed chidori, did something that looks like backflip but left(so immediately a dodge) and click released that. Sounds complicated but it's not since you actually use those keys for movement or attacks anyway. In WOW pvp you had to use WASD+ camera rotate + 1,9 keys + keyboard/mouse binds which is way more.

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From what i understood there might be friendly fire too, and since the techniques will be separate entities, just mindlessly spamming aoe migth destroy your own team even if u are in the same party.


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On 4/11/2020 at 9:23 AM, Heimdallr said:

It would be cool to have jutsu system that requires combinations of numeric keyboard as instead of WOW-alike skills, there would be seals to Jutsus you've unlocked.

While a cool idea, people have the ability to just macro/hotkey the combinations, which would just serve as a huge waste of time for the devs. At that point, may as well just make it how it is now.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 9:23 AM, Heimdallr said:

It would be awesome to get only few basics when you choose a Mastery and then, to learn more you would have to train/find them and spend time to up your skills in certain skill like Water release.

Pretty sure this is more or less the system in place.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 9:23 AM, Heimdallr said:

Limitations

HP/Chakra bar. You will already have to decide if its worth it to use a jutsu to finish off an enemy, then use taijutsu to kill the other (or whatever example you may chose to use)

On 4/12/2020 at 12:10 PM, Heimdallr said:

Junchuriki would have separate talent tree and skill bar to obtain these talents,  he would have access to few powerful abilities and of course he would be unkillable by a single player or even a bigger group of players(unless highly skilled and geared) and now the best part - limitations.

Nah, definitely not. No one should be a 1 man army/raid boss. The team has made it pretty clear that they do not want to reach this type of power levels for an individual player.

 

On 4/12/2020 at 12:10 PM, Heimdallr said:

If a Jinchuriki would not log in at least once for an hour in 7 days, his character would die and beast would spawn randomly somewhere, so that people could not keep it from everyone or log out and block the possibility of having it.

This just seems like a very silly way to try to justify including jinchuriki in the game.

 

On 4/12/2020 at 12:10 PM, Heimdallr said:

7 swords - Basically as Above(perhaps little sword rework? some of them were literally made so bad...without any deeper idea just to fill the gap, but that's a different conversation) 7 Sword masters that would have awesome OP swords they could utilize, however apart from swords and their abilities nothing else, so it would be easier to obtain that sword(but in order to wield it a higher rank would be required) - Same 7 days rule.

The seven swords are cool and it'd be great if they made an appearance in the game, but you keep going back to this idea of things being OP. The vast majority of people do not want to create a character, develop and progress it, just to have it killed by someone who just so happens to have something retardedly OP weighing the odds in their favor. 

 

On 4/12/2020 at 12:10 PM, Heimdallr said:

Sage art

 

On 4/12/2020 at 12:10 PM, Heimdallr said:

but they have to change their entrances daily so that someone can't metagame and say - selling location for 5k

Its honestly ridiculous to expect this to happen, and a huge burden on the staff.

 

16 hours ago, Heimdallr said:

Sage art is all about being OP just like Gates and KIG stuff like Sharingan etc. That's why they need to be obtainable,

Kinda a contradiction in your logic here..."This thing is OP, which is why you should be able to get it!".

 

 

 

 

Overall, the majority of these suggestions seem to just be "Include OP stuff in the game". Personally not a fan of any of these.

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The OPsness is not so OP if you put all that I wrote together and actually think how to adapt this.

 

Lets think clearly on this:

Jinchurikis most likely won't be solo guys, the whole idea of capturing tailed beast and putting in a vessel makes the vessel a limited player, so something, for something. It adds to RP, plot and power, not only to power. Village/clan/facton won't let such just walk freely, he would be rather limited to village/sector only. Now reading forums I've stumbled upon a perma kill application here, this could be useful in this post.  Jinchurikis could try to escape and be solo players using their power in whatever way, limited of course to lets say 2-3 tails maximally, but of course application only, with proper rp, validation and they would have to have an event for this, event with consequences.   If you escape the village or whoever granted you the power, you will be always chased, so you have to hide, travel, pretend you are someone else, it creates a vast RP spot here, played lots of such things in RP Neverwinter Nights 2, being anonymous because you might end up dragged to someone or end up dead - that's a really fun thing.

 

Similar applies to swords but with less restrictions imho, however in cases of swords, beasts, artifacts - you play like a fool - you end up dead.

 

Applications could be an awesome thing here as, let's pretend that you are in that tiny amount of players that received the best Kekkei Genkai skills, swords, beasts, artifacts, sage mode and whatever tiramisu is out there for the player - being so OP there should be a restriction to perma kill Only application based so someone who is a real abuser wouldn't use it against people on purpose, or accidentaly perm someone new or not really into PVP.

 

Also it's just my experience from Online RPG games with a lot of PVP, that there is really small amount of people that obtain something that boosts the hell out of them, and use that to harm innocent. There are such people, hence application to change plot, quest plot, do something bigger in the world or kill someone permanently, would solve it, at least in my opinion.

 

An example - If I would be a sage, looking at my post with chances to obtain the best of the best and be the 10% of players that have obtained the unobtainable, I could RP that I went mad after years and just dwell in some terrain(for example a mountain cave) only, kill on sight everyone who wouldn't do something that my character reacts to, remembers from before he went mad. I wouldn't perm these people, rp stuff out and just get rid of the bodies so they could ress, but if someone would do similar concept, be a di*k or would want to be Madara or Pain in schemes(so reach your target, don't count the bodies ) the application perm is the way to go as it would limit the perms to 0 or nearly 0.

 

Consequences are coming- someone with great power is doing something, villages act, try to hunt down, put guard or act this is a vast thing to talk about but trust me, seen such things in Online and MMO RP/PVP and players always balance it out, you just need to put a system in use, that would help that.

 

As I said, if you put all together and think about downsides, many of those don't need hours of work to implement as far as I'm aware, and they are not game ruiners if set properly, they can only enchance.

 

As to Seals - Damn you are right, however  if there would be a simple way to block the core engine we play on, from addons added by players, macros or something like that, that would be a-mah-zing

 

Regarding randomising entrances to Sage lands so to call them, don't think that's an issue either, you don't need to create literall gates or anything, lets say there are only 3:

Snake

Frog

Monkey

 

They all have their own instances but they are somewhere outside of the map, they  are instances, the entrances are permanent small things, objects, mini gates, anything that would make you wonder - hey what's this - and touch/interact with them. That interaction has passage marker or whatever it is called in wow, and the thing is to make a simple scheme that randomly moves these to any spot from the list or any spot that is not"village, this place, that place" I can write such simply thing in Powershell, don't think that WOW or C# is not able of having - if I'm wrong here correct me, I would at least understand more what is beneath the mask; ]

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Just straight up not for having OP things. The game should be balanced and at a lower level. If you want crazy levels there are Naruto games on the ps3 and stuff like that I'm sure.

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If we're really adamant about adding unique items and abilities, why not make them purely cosmetic. It's an RP game after all, so they don't really have to show in pvp. You are brave enough to carry a unique item, u better be able to defend it with the same level and number of abilities as everyone else. 

Sure, give jin a few auras, or have seven sword cosmetic that u could loot off the players wielding it even if seven swords and jin don't make any sense atm cos the lore is different from Naruto. They basically don't even exist yet if u read SS lore, so u might aswell just create your own unique weapon and RP around it.

 

Give them RP value, not PvP value.

Edited by Paul

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This was generally about anything, because Kekkei Genkai is OP in itself, unless you want to limit whole KIGS to some basic abilities than yea, we don't need sage mode, swords artifacts or anything and all can stick to basic abilities, and yes the game is RP but also PVP oriented, All of abovementioned stick both to PVP and RP

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6 minutes ago, BloodyDoll said:

I personally too think that the bijuu and such are very cool pieces, sage, susano'o, you name it. It's just the balance that throws off the entire idea.

Given this game is based on skill, I can't really see a tower-sized jutsu like susano'o or bijuu, one that hits half the map at once, being put into fair play.

I planned that all with balance ofc, and downsides. That's why I talked about them a lot, Susanoo is brilliant but it has costs, it makes you blind like all Mangekyo techniques, also it is causing pain and exhaustion so that is a cool stuff but limited. If not various downsides, to balance such things you could use a great chakra devour, it's not that I really want to see everything op, it's just the fact that I like detail and various paths and possibilities. Having possibility to use such technique knowing that It might be my insta lose, or help in victory...that's awesome

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Well you are constantly talking about RP but seems you got no imagination at all.

 

I will stick to suggestions instead of discussions in this topic

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Currently no one has a big enough belly for a giant fat animal to reside within, nor does anyones belly have space for a jail cell either.
For the jutsus, they are still being developed and currently we are having multiple paths we can take that may be trashed or become reality. 
No one has to care about balancing for now since I am still running numbers, know that this will take A LOT of time, since every spell has some kind of effect on several other spells or with other spells and should be taken into consideration with the melee weapons and the creature stats together with the character stats for all preplanned stat boosts.
When working with % and hard numbers, this takes even longer together with things like critical damage which is interchanging between melee and jutsu.

Being a frog god with nature powers will not be made available in the near future since honestly it would slow down the rest of the balancing.
The fancy eyes mechanic is slowly being worked on as well for all you bloodline lovers.

Want answers on more? Please quote it and tag me. Especially when it comes to anything number based like creature health or player damage and anything that can effect literally anything in the game. Hell, I'll even answer your PMs on discord.

Love,
Aetherweaver / Sad Test Creature

P.S
I ignored your discussion


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